I'm just too worn out over the futility of getting love and sex to comment much about this analysis.
"A" insists that she loves me, wants to spend more time with me, wants to live with me, but then can't follow through on about half of our dates (the coolest sounding ones), and always has to cut our dates short to get back home. She's never been able to stay with me at home for more than about 2 hours, and it hasn't been at all uncommon that after a few hours at a concert or similar activity, she can't spend more than a few minutes. She simply says she has to go for some reason (typically nowadays it's that her husband, who she hardly speaks to, would make a sour comment--and she still attempts to deny to him that she is even visiting me). Meanwhile, we've been to concerts and political activities accounting for over 200 dates. I'd have gone on more, but she couldn't make them (or didn't follow through).
http://lhote.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-paperman-problem.html
What the guy does is OT, but I sympathize.
What the guy does is OT, but I sympathize.
How's my story going? 48 months into my only currently ongoing lady friendship (which seemed like it was imminently going to include living together 47 months ago, that's what she was saying for the first 3 months, until her kid insisted she should not leave her husband) things don't seem to have changed much from the beginning for the better, except perhaps in our heads that we've come to understand each other a bit better.
"A" insists that she loves me, wants to spend more time with me, wants to live with me, but then can't follow through on about half of our dates (the coolest sounding ones), and always has to cut our dates short to get back home. She's never been able to stay with me at home for more than about 2 hours, and it hasn't been at all uncommon that after a few hours at a concert or similar activity, she can't spend more than a few minutes. She simply says she has to go for some reason (typically nowadays it's that her husband, who she hardly speaks to, would make a sour comment--and she still attempts to deny to him that she is even visiting me). Meanwhile, we've been to concerts and political activities accounting for over 200 dates. I'd have gone on more, but she couldn't make them (or didn't follow through).
Just a couple of months ago, circa mid December, it seemed like we were moving forward in the real world, not just our heads, maybe a little, in the 55 minutes of mutual TV watching I could maybe arrange weekly. That's right, I was actually getting her to come over (a half mile walk through the neighborhood) to my home weekly, for a few weeks in a row, maybe a few missed, to watch episodes of Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States, which we both loved. Each such visit would typically last about 2 hours, with one hour in the kitchen with a drink (she drinks less these days though, often asking for nothing) and one hour watching TV in bed, ending right after the program with her rushing back home for some stated reason. In some earlier months, there might be one TV watching session per month, or maybe months would go by in between them, with her maybe not being able to spend any time after the Symphony or Democratic Party meetings with me, or maybe just 30 minutes in the kitchen with a champaign or wine before having to go back home for some reason. But every week, for an hour in bed (little else) this was heaven! This glorious period of time came to an end near the end of December. My friend didn't tell me until a few weeks later, but she lost her job thanks to DoD cutbacks in December, then quickly grabbed the first job available, a security receptionist job, which just happened to be 12 hours on Saturday and Sunday, the very day(s) we had been watching TV together.
Within a week or so upon finding this out, I offered to buy out her weekend job, simply paying the entire amount she would be making in 24 hours of weekend work, so she might be able to spend a few hours with me instead. Not surprisingly, she refused, saying she wanted to stay on good terms with this contract security company, as well as with her husband. OK. I kept the first week's pay next to the TV in my bedroom, and though she has seen it 3 or so times since, the few times she's been back in my bedroom since, she's never said for me to put it away.
When I finally got the spare bedroom cleared out in January, I presented a bunch of options, including just simply living me with as a friend and roommate--but rent free, or a limited partnership, or a maximal partnership. My maximum partnership option includes a $2,000/mo allowance to cover her outside expenses (kid's education) with promise that I'll pay directly for everything else (food, clothing, housing, utilities, car, healthcare-if-she-marries-me). What do I get in return? Nothing. The only thing I ask is that she live in-house. She could even work an outside job, have dinner with kid and husband, just be back at night to go to sleep.
Well she didn't like that idea, and said she wasn't like that, she was used to earning her living. So I made a list of things I would her like to do, and assigned unusually generous but still fair-to-me terms to them. For example, pulling weeds would be $40/hour, including all breaks required. OK, I think this is reasonable. I made a whole list of things she could do, including watching TV. It would not be hard following this set of rates to make $2000 with 40 or 50 hours of fairly easy work that she likes to do anyway, like gardening, and never leaving home. That's the idea. I figure all she needs is $2000 (it's more than double what she's making now) and it would be worth at least that much to me to have that work being done, let alone the benefit of being able to live together and actually share more of our time at home together.
I was of course worried that she would be offended when I presented this. But when I first mentioned it, she wasn't offended at all, and came over to do weeding for two days in a row, just meeting me for a few minutes if at all before I left for work. The first day, I don't think she was over more than 30 minutes, and the second day it was little more than two hours. I counted this as three hours of weeding, and that weekend I offered her $120 cash. She refused to take it. I finally stuck the money in her purse. She kept arguing, and even argued with me about it 3 days later. It was a hard argument, though she always denies she is threatening our very association, that was the feeling I had, that this was an existential argument over our relationship. I promised I would not force her to take money again, but she offered that I could start counting hours--or something like that, I can't remember her exact words.
So I did start counting hours, and the next week I figured she had made another $160. According to her, she was merely finishing enough to earn the $120 I had already paid. I produced the $160 in cash after a symphony date, but she pushed it away. I promised to keep the money on her behalf, and she liked that idea, and told me not to spend it. It's sitting next to the TV right now. This is not where I wanted to go, but the idea of counting her hours and keeping an account she could draw on, it seems like a pragmatic approach given her desires.
I've thrown in a Smart Car to the offer, since it seems her husband, kid, and kid's boyfriend are using her car so much she is usually left stranded waiting for one of them--or me--to pick her up from her downtown job. She was pounding the Smart Car drum heavily a few years ago. But now that I've offered to get her one "the day she moves over" she's decided maybe it's too complex, too expensive (she only wants the most basic model anyway), and now she wants to check out a purported $2600 EV car we'll go see next month. Of course she doesn't want me to buy her a car at all, etc. But I'd be so happy to have the chance to do so.
There's the story of my life. It's been relatively easy for me to earn a living, but making love, or even getting some lady to spend an hour with me. It just seems impossible. Even with my best lady friend, whose been on good terms with me for 48 months, we've been on about 200 dates or daytrips together, but it hasn't gotten easier to get to sex.
My story with "A" isn't unusual in underperformance in the annals of my love life. I went with "E" for about 50 fabulous dates over 2 years, at concerts large and small. She, like me, had a soft spot for jazz. But when we got back to her house, the only jazz allowed was only hugging, no kissing, she always turned her face when I tried to kiss. My brother-in-law set me up with "E" and was very surprised when I described that this was how it had gone, he had previously dated her and wasn't expecting that at all, he thought I should have seen some action after a few dates. I moved away from San Diego, but when I returned for a visit once, "E" discovered I was back in town (this was about 18 years after our last date) and called my brother-in-law relentlessly hoping to set up another date.
Then there was "T" with whom I had about 50 dates where I live now. She would never kiss me at the beginning of a date (when I felt I needed confirmation the most) but only when I left. Otherwise, if I sat next to her in her living room, she might move to the next seat. If I held her hand, she might accept that for awhile, but then require an untimely visit to the ladies room. Sometimes a hand was quickly rejected. We did have long conversations, but over time, our viewpoints diverged. She became a strong antiporn feminist.
Actually there were just a few women with whom things were better. "L" accepted a nice kiss on the second date and then we had fine times for about 6 months, "J" went on a nice trip with me after a year of dating and kissing. The best of all my sexual relationships may well have been my first, with "JE" in college, we had rollicking times in bed and on trips right from the beginning. (Turned out she had another boyfriend too.) That lasted about a year with a couple of retries over the next two years. But that's about it, as far as unchoked sexual relationships go, in my life. I envy those guys who have had real sex lives, or at least better than me--which would probably be most of them.
And yet, women tell me I am good looking, I am successful in my career of 35 years, own a nice house and car. Women tell me I am about the nicest guy they have met, and even after I haven't seen them in a long time, still have interest. People suggest I may have flaws in various areas like these, but I don't see that I do. I feel the alternative is inescapable: women are impossible.
To be more exact, women have the upper hand in sexual negotiation. They are the ones that have to be sold, and men are the salesmen most often turned away at the door. They will most often say "No" even when it seems like part of their mind and body is saying Yes.
Traditional societies provide strong incentives for women to step beyond No. Women may need a sexual partner merely to have an ordinary life. I'm not saying that is good.
Liberal societies provide less incentives, and in fact strong support for the idea that women don't need men and shouldn't be dependent on them, and should instead be financially independent.
I think it should be that way, yes, but something else ought to be invented to be the catalyst for bringing men and women together sexually, in the world in which this is not the sole responsibility of parents or church.
My story with "A" isn't unusual in underperformance in the annals of my love life. I went with "E" for about 50 fabulous dates over 2 years, at concerts large and small. She, like me, had a soft spot for jazz. But when we got back to her house, the only jazz allowed was only hugging, no kissing, she always turned her face when I tried to kiss. My brother-in-law set me up with "E" and was very surprised when I described that this was how it had gone, he had previously dated her and wasn't expecting that at all, he thought I should have seen some action after a few dates. I moved away from San Diego, but when I returned for a visit once, "E" discovered I was back in town (this was about 18 years after our last date) and called my brother-in-law relentlessly hoping to set up another date.
Then there was "T" with whom I had about 50 dates where I live now. She would never kiss me at the beginning of a date (when I felt I needed confirmation the most) but only when I left. Otherwise, if I sat next to her in her living room, she might move to the next seat. If I held her hand, she might accept that for awhile, but then require an untimely visit to the ladies room. Sometimes a hand was quickly rejected. We did have long conversations, but over time, our viewpoints diverged. She became a strong antiporn feminist.
Actually there were just a few women with whom things were better. "L" accepted a nice kiss on the second date and then we had fine times for about 6 months, "J" went on a nice trip with me after a year of dating and kissing. The best of all my sexual relationships may well have been my first, with "JE" in college, we had rollicking times in bed and on trips right from the beginning. (Turned out she had another boyfriend too.) That lasted about a year with a couple of retries over the next two years. But that's about it, as far as unchoked sexual relationships go, in my life. I envy those guys who have had real sex lives, or at least better than me--which would probably be most of them.
And yet, women tell me I am good looking, I am successful in my career of 35 years, own a nice house and car. Women tell me I am about the nicest guy they have met, and even after I haven't seen them in a long time, still have interest. People suggest I may have flaws in various areas like these, but I don't see that I do. I feel the alternative is inescapable: women are impossible.
To be more exact, women have the upper hand in sexual negotiation. They are the ones that have to be sold, and men are the salesmen most often turned away at the door. They will most often say "No" even when it seems like part of their mind and body is saying Yes.
Traditional societies provide strong incentives for women to step beyond No. Women may need a sexual partner merely to have an ordinary life. I'm not saying that is good.
Liberal societies provide less incentives, and in fact strong support for the idea that women don't need men and shouldn't be dependent on them, and should instead be financially independent.
I think it should be that way, yes, but something else ought to be invented to be the catalyst for bringing men and women together sexually, in the world in which this is not the sole responsibility of parents or church.
